JMS Hockey

I just read a post about sign ups going out for 28 days and goalies and I had a thought. Now, this is not a well thought out plan, but just an initial idea. What if JMS allowed up to 4 goalies to sign up for each session. Each goalie would get 45 minutes of play time. Things to consider: 1) I don't play goalie, so I don't have a personal interest 2) I know goalies who do play JMS and have had a hard time finding games because the slots fill up quickly 3) This may be better than restricting goalies, for example, where a goalie cannot sign up for more than one session a week. 4) 45 minutes in goal may be a good enough workout for a goalie (I don't really know) 5) Since goalies play for free, it's not really taking anything away from them. 6) It may attract more players (both goalies and skaters) to JMS 7) It may attract more players to play goalie or at least try it Just a thought.

When I play open hockey in Burnsville, we rotate between 3 goalies. You can't sign up ahead of time though, first come first serve. Which is probably why they allow 3, maybe 4 if the existing 3 allow it. I personally like playing the full 90 mins. Some days it can get exhausting but that's the part that makes it more of a endurance conditioning workout and we as goalies get more time to work on our game instead of warming up just to cool down then warming up again.

It's not a bad idea, but it's really up to other goalies to decide if this would work or not. We've had similar ideas come up in the past but the general consensus was that most goalies wanted/expected to play a full game and most did not have an interest in playing part time.

Personally I'd rather play the whole game, even if it means I get to play fewer games. Many of us often drive 20-30 minutes each way to play. Add in the time to gather your gear, put it on, take it back off and lay it out to dry and the ratio of "playing time" to "driving and getting ready time" is kind of disappointing if the playing time is only 45 minutes. Being able to sign up 4 weeks in advance seems to have decreased the speed with which most goalie spots are taken. Many of them do still get taken fairly quickly, but not like before where you needed to be online at 12:01 am to get a spot in some of the games. Hopefully if people are a little flexible about where and when they play and get used to signing up well in advance, the current system will serve most goalies well. However, it might be worthwhile to let new goalies know (maybe in the information people receive when they first register with JMS?) that there seems to be a consensus that goalies should limit themselves to no more than 2 nets/week. There was an online discussion about this last fall, but goalies who've joined JMS since then probably have no way of knowing about it.

As a goalie I won't play a pickup game that isn't 90 minutes. Its just not worth the effort.

I agree with Sue and Troy. For goalies, JMS is great because you know that for 90 minutes you've got full benches and one opposing goalie and that's it. Another point would be that the first goalie would also have a disadvantage in that teams could be poorly balanced (rarer these days), skaters may show up late, or the game may be slow in the beginning or end, even fewer shots faced. I'd rather see restrictions implemented on how many nets people are allowed to sign up for. An example would be for a goalie to be able to sign up for 1 net 3-4 weeks in advance, 3 nets a week in advance, and no restrictions for the week of. This system is just an example, and I haven't looked to see if people were reserving tons of nets in advance or the cancellation rate for goalies. I think once AHA Summer gets going, the situation for goalies will get better as well.

Not to get off topic, but whats the deal with AHA? I swear, getting ahold of people there is practically impossible. I have been emailing and not getting any response's for evals. But plus 1 to JJ glover, perhaps setting up some type of restriction system would allow for more play. Its a bit hard still with level restrictions. I wish it was only implemented for per-registration, and not for day of, in the event there are open goaltending slots to avoid game cancellation. Do backup signups have level restrictions?

I think the evals for the AHA are done and all upper level goalie spots are filled for the summer season. Most skater spots are full as well. You could directly email the head honcho.. pmorrow@ahahockey.com As for restrictions, same day signups for goalies had most restrictions lifted... but the level perms would only be lifted in desperate circumstances I believe. Personally, I wouldn't signup to play net for anything less than an hour. I already turn down 1 hour icetimes because sometimes its just not worth it. Still not completely sold on the 4 week advance signups. I feel if I don't signup 4 weeks in advance, I won't be able to play at all. Yet 4 weeks advance signup for a family guy with 4 kids at home is a disservice to the other goalies. It's a catch 22. Sign up and have to cancel, or don't sign up and don't play...or depend on other cancellations. The key point is every goalie has their own set of circumstances, (skaters do as well). We ALL need to realize that JMS is trying to provide the best option for EVERYONE... not just one person.

I wouldn't sign up to play for a game unless I knew I got to play the full 90 minutes. I know that as a skater the time can go by really slow, especially when you're getting tired, but as a goalie the time flies by. It's always a disappointment to know that the game is over because to me it always seems like it happens so quickly.

This may have been mentioned on the other goalie thread that was accidentally deleted, I didn't see that one. I will preface this by saying I will probably get hanged from the nearest flagpole for even suggesting this but from a purely economic perspective, it makes sense. I'm also a goalie. When you have a shortage of an item (goalie spots) and a high demand for that item, the natural consequence for that scenario is a rise in price. When something is free, count on having a shortage of whatever that may be. When the price rises and brings down some of the excess demand, pushing out the marginal buyers and only leaving those that really want/need that item, the price stabilizes and you have a market price. Price is a very simple and effective way to ration a scarce good. I would have no problem paying for a goalie spot because then I could at least skate a JMS session occasionally. Right now I don't skate with JMS at all because every time I look, all goalie spots for the next 3+ weeks are taken. If someone wants to sign up 3 weeks in advance, it oughtta cost you to 'reserve' that spot. Then within a few days if it's not full it could revert to free and if you take your chances and wait, you might get lucky and not have to pay. I'm sure I'll get flamed for speaking the unspeakable but I can't think of a more fair way to distribute something. People won't economize unless there's a cost associated with something.

Agreed. 100%.

Steve- not a bad idea.

Potentially a good idea, but I think it would put JMS back in the same boat it was in previously in not having goalies for some skates. I may say I would pay to play net, but truly would I? Not really. Too many other net options out there for me that are free. Maybe instead we need a system of, if you sign up anymore than 2 weeks ahead of time, you are locked in and cannot cancel. If you need to, than that goalie is responsible for finding their own sub. At the end of the day, goalies need to keep 2 things in mind. First, don't cancel closer than 2 days before a skate (if at all). Second, show up when you say you will. Everything else will fall into place.

I would pay to register ahead of time. however, it would be a good idea to lift the cost the day of in the event you have several cancellations to secure a goalie spot.

(the following is my own personal perspective and does not represent JMS' stance on this) That's an interesting idea Steve. I do not like the idea of outright charging goalies - they are simply too important to the ecosystem of a game and like Rob said, I think there's enough options out there that it would hurt JMS in the long run. The responsibility of playing such an important role in the game is what the program gets in exchange for the free game. Here's a thought piggybacking on Steve's idea: What if goalie spots further than two weeks out required a deposit to claim? $10 claims a spot. If you want to claim a bunch of spots, you need to put money down to do it. If you actually attend and play the game, you get your deposit back. If you cancel less than 72 (or maybe just 48?) hours from the game, the deposit is forfeited and a bounty is placed on the goalie position. The goalie that claims the spot and attends the game gets receives the deposit. Not sure about the whole bounty idea but the point would be that the money goes back in to the community somehow. Maybe could go into a "puck fund" instead.

haha! Getting paid to play goalie, put this into effect and I will surely be "living the dream". :)

I wholeheartedly support some sort of limitation effort. Recently acquired some well used goalie gear and have been dying to give it a go. Unfortunately, everything is booked! Some goalies are playing 3 or 4 times per week leaving no chance for anyone else to give it a try. Please find some way to do this. Excellent ideas have been shared already so hopefully the logistics of putting something into practice isn't overwhelming. Thanks in advance for trying to fix this.

If you're truly dying to play goalie, you wouldn't limit yourself to just JMS. A lot of rinks have their own in house open hockey. I started out learning butterfly style at Burnsville's open hockey on Sunday mornings. Far more of a challenge as they are all players from different levels and some can give great advice based on observation as they've been playing hockey forever. Instead of limiting all of us, why don't you take it upon yourself and maybe message a goalie you're noticing is taking up too many spots and ask if they'd let you have it. Most goalies would understand and if they don't, THEY should be limited.

I know that I'm one of the goalies that is playing a lot (sometimes upwards of 4 games a week, although it's mostly only 2 times a week), but I agree with Brandon. There are a lot of hockey leagues and other open-ice rinks that will allow you to come in and play. I won't name any (because in doing so I would be endorsing those other places), but I started off with another league and came to JMS when I felt I was ready for the more solid structure of play. I don't like the idea of making goalies pay to play since we're so essential to the game (and there are other places we could play for free), but I wouldn't have a problem with having to put a deposit on a game that's more than 2 weeks in advance. And just to let the goalies know, I'm only playing so many games right now because I am moving to LA by September, after which I'll be done and all the games I play will then be open.

You all have an interesting issue here. I just joined to try and find some games as I will be coming into the Twin Cities area, White Bear Lake from the 8-12 of July and was hoping to find a game. Instead I see games that have yet to find skaters with the goalie spots filled. Where I am it is free as goalies are in short supply. We actually get paid, $10 per game, for playing in the Co-Ed league. It goes into an equipment fund to provide the goalies with quality equipment and is intended to entice more to try goalie. It works. However, in your case I would have to agree with many here, if you have two goalies already signed up and no skaters. It may be time to make some hard decisions. You all will either always see the same goalies. Dedicated goalies for certain as they are willing to drive all over the place chasing the ice time. However, no new goalies could ever break into this setup and as many know causing a sport to flatline is actually inviting its death as goalies age there will not be new goalies trained to fill their spots. And playing against a shooter tutor is really not as fun for the skaters. For me, I'll just have to settle for a workout with pads on during open skate and getting my kids on the ice for some youth pickup, and you guessed it, a couple of them are goalies. Just .02 from someone in an area where we are trying hard to build a hockey culture.

I don't know about that. I just counted over a dozen games coming up that have no goalies signed up. Yes, the immediate games are taken, but there is plenty of opportunity for a new goalie right now.

Plus, there has been an influx of goalies cancelling at the last minute lately... so there ARE nets open. As this new set-up of advanced signups has been around now for a couple months, the observation I have is that it really isn't much different than the old setup. Sure, nets may be taken 4 weeks in advance... but nets are also cancelled on a pretty regular basis, opening nets up the same week of the ice times...or even a day or two prior. Fact is, no matter what system is implemented, people are going to cry foul because they can't have their specific ice time in their specific arena that is most convenient for them. It is getting SO OLD. As Andy says, there are LOTS of nets open right now. If you TRULY want to play and be on the ice, then you'll take what's available. But if you are simply going to limit yourself to a 6 square mile radius of your house, only icetimes that begin between 7:30 and 8:30 and ONLY Upper Level skates, then YES... a net is going to be very difficult to find because they are so limited. There are other icetimes elsewhere. Making JMS the first choice is not a bad thing, but realize sometimes you cannot always get your first choice. For me, I look at JMS for icetimes and if there are none or I am picky, then I look elsewhere at other places I have identified to supplement my ice time.

Open spot at Breck tonite! Great group! Get it...

Not really interested in getting into a big debate and especially not an argument, since the collective love of hockey is what drew me to JMS in the first place and there seems to be very few "politics" related issues. I still feel like I'm pretty new around the JMS skates, so I sincerely respect the long timers point of view. As a relative newcomer, and only back into hockey recently after 20+ years away, it's a little intimidating to think about strapping on pads for the first time in front of an all level crew. I'm not that good of a skater, and haven't played an all level game yet, but my expectation is I'd be overwhelmed in the goal on my first time out. There may be lots of goalie spots available for experienced, or upper level goalies, but at my level they are very limited. I had already tried the suggestion of messaging the goalies for the game I was hoping to play (where I've actually gotten to know some of the skaters and believe they would be understanding if I am totally not cut out for playing goalie). I did get a good reply back indicating a willingness to give the spot up, but there were good reasons for him to want to play that specific game. Completely understand his position and thank him for considering it. I know there is no way to keep everyone happy, but for lower level goalies, there aren't as many options as you think, so developing a system that keeps a lot of potential players involved would seem like a good thing. That's just my opinion, and since I haven't been around that long, I didn't realize this "argument" was SO OLD and would aggravate people. Yes, I've set some limitations on the games I'd consider, but it's not certain times or distances...it's based on trying to keep the game a good experience. I believe the all level games deserve a little more experience in goal than basically a first timer. Again, I appreciate the comments from those that have been around a while...I'll be searching for some other ways to get on the ice and in the net.

Maybe start a system of temporary holds on goalies who are no shows. Maybe start with a two week ban which includes removal from any games they signed up for a week to three weeks out? If they no show again, which includes cancelling within a few hours of game time, make it a four week ban. Third time? They're out. It can be a potentially tough situation though as things do happen which can be out of their control - ie family emergency. So there would have to be some leeway there. No shows and cancelling the day of a game are becoming a problem though. As I stated in the other thread, it's happened three times for games I've played since the four week signup started. Previously, I can only recall it happening once in the ~3 years I've played JMS.

Hey Steve, Most goalies do get some sort of restriction placed on their signup capabilities for a certain amount of time. I'm not sure what the exact consequence is. We recently put together a goalie committee to oversee these things and they go through this on a case-by-case basis – sometimes it truly is a family emergency so that has to be taken into account. This doesn't prevent the problem though, we still need to put in something to prevent this. -Andy

Two open spots Monday kids - grab 'em while they are open!

Does anyone know why if/why there are no longer "backup" options? I can see that for some games there are backup goalies, but when I click on a game that already has 2 goalies I can no longer opt to be the backup.

Hey Mark, The backup option won't show up if you aren't eligible for the game or you're already playing somewhere else or signed up as a backup goalie somewhere else that night. -Andy

Hm, I guess that's what I thought. Must have just looked over a game in which I was signed up or something. Thanks!